Links, Corrections, and Whatnot

Other Ways to Listen & Subscribe

APPLE PODCASTS

SPOTIFY

Transcript

This transcript was generated by AI so please ignore any weird errors. If there is anything really terrible, let us know.

Pam (00:00)
The last couple of weeks have been busier than my life has been over the last few months. So I had a client come back after

Sarah (00:07)
Yeah.

Pam (00:11)
working with another agency for a couple years, I had two other clients increase my engagement with them. So it’s been much busier, which is great, except that I had added a lot of stuff to my plate while I wasn’t busy. So all of a sudden I’m in this like time scarcity, time crunch thing. And I was feeling just pulled in too many directions and like overwhelmed and not feeling

like myself. And so then I was working an event for the group that I volunteer with. Like we go to events and do outreach to try and encourage more people to be volunteers. So I signed up for that last Saturday and it was a 5K and I was like, there was two shifts. You could come at seven or you could come at 10:30. And I’m like, well, I’m a morning person. I’ll come at seven and just get it out of the way

Sarah (01:05)
What do mean 5k? You are running 5k or? I see. Gotcha. You’re like running and telling people about. Yeah.

Pam (01:07)
we’re just at the race at like we have a booth. Yeah, no, not running like, please, please try come help foster kids. No, that would

that would be great. No, we just had to like stand in a booth and give people information. But I didn’t pay attention to where the event was. I thought it was local. And our county is huge and our group services the entire county. So the event was actually an hour and half drive away

from where I live and I had to be there at seven o’clock in the morning, which means I had to get up at 4:30 on Saturday morning to leave my house by 5:30. And we’ve talked before about how I’m really sensitive to caffeine, but I was like, I’m gonna have some coffee to get through this day. So I had too much coffee and was exhausted. after…

Sarah (01:38)
my god.

Pam (02:01)
volunteering at the event, I came home and I was just a wreck. Like I was exhausted but also wired so I couldn’t relax and then yeah, total mess. So that like screwed up my whole weekend. So I like lost my weekend and I still have that layer of anxiety that I get when I have too much caffeine. Like I just constantly feel like I’ve screwed something up. I’ve done something wrong. Like any minute I’m going to get an email about this thing that I screwed up. And I know like now I know.

Sarah (02:08)
just completely out of whack.

Pam (02:30)
that it’s not real, that it’s because of the caffeine and the like sleep schedule getting all screwed up and everything, but it’s still this constant like…

Sarah (02:39)
It’s like hypervigilance.

Pam (02:40)
Yes, it is. It’s totally hypervigilance. And it’s like mental and physical. Like I can feel it manifesting in my chest. So all that to say right now, I’m a little bit manic. But over the last couple of weeks, I had been getting into that time scarcity and that feeling of like, I’ve got too much on my plate and I’m not feeling like who I want to be. Like, I was out of line with my values. We’ve talked before about

Sarah (02:43)
Huh.

Yeah.

Okay.

Pam (03:09)
how one of the things that I value most is freedom and having time to do what I want to do. And I started realizing that this newsletter that we’ve talked about a few times that I created called Making It Easy, which is weekly dinner menus, that was taking so much more time than I thought that it would take. And at the same time, I wasn’t enjoying it in the way that I thought that I would.

Sarah (03:34)
Yeah.

Pam (03:36)
Like it was honestly taking me like four to six hours a week to manage this thing and write it and you know, like all that goes into it. And that wasn’t even including time that I needed to spend promoting it to build an audience to make it worthwhile. So I didn’t do it last week. I didn’t send the email. I didn’t do the newsletter and like I…

Sarah (03:43)
Sure.

Pam (04:02)
probably could have, but it would have meant sacrificing something else. And I had to make the decision of like, you know, what, what is worth it for me. And we’ve talked before about my story of how I’m like a quitter and I don’t follow through with things. So I had to really like coach myself through that feeling of like, are you, are you giving up on this or is it actually the right?

Sarah (04:14)
Yeah.

Pam (04:26)
decision for you based on where you’re at in your life and like, did you give it enough of a try and honestly, like if you’re not enjoying it, why are you doing it? You know, so yeah, I think, I think my newsletter is getting retired. I think I gave it a shot. Yeah, I think so. I think so.

Sarah (04:33)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, you’re gonna, yeah, you’re gonna pull the plug. Okay,

so what did you get out of the experience?

Pam (04:49)
I learned a lot about Substack, which is great. I think that it’s a really great tool for writers. you know, if that’s your thing, if you like writing, that’s another thing that I learned is I’m much better talking. I love getting on here and having conversations. I love, you know, having meaningful conversations with people, whoever they are. I don’t love sitting down and having to write.

Sarah (05:07)
Yeah.

Pam (05:15)
it’s my personality doesn’t come through. Maybe it’s because I haven’t practiced it enough, but it’s just not, it’s just not my jam. So I learned that about myself, which is valuable.

Sarah (05:25)
So valuable.

We can’t know things until we try them. We can’t know how they’re going to feel.

Pam (05:28)
Yeah, yeah, it’s

true. Yeah, so that’s where I’m at. I tried it. I had to coach myself through whether I was quitting or whether it was just not the right thing and that’s okay, right? Like I started feeling like I had a bunch of bosses. Like all of my subscribers were now like people that I was obligated to and I hate feeling obligation. It’s just…

It’s one of my things. I hate that feeling. So it started feeling like more of a more of an obligation and less of something that I wanted to do.

Sarah (06:05)
I have a question. What did you want to get out of the experience initially?

Pam (06:12)
so I, I love cooking and recipes and everything. I love creating healthy meals and I wanted to build a network of people that also feel the same way or, or help people implement that in their lives that they don’t have it. And in order to do that, I, it would be a full-time job.

Sarah (06:27)
Yeah.

Pam (06:34)
to find those people and get them to subscribe. Like I did get a lot of subscribers through networking on Substack, but they were all other people that we just like, I’ll subscribe to you if you subscribe to me. And then like they’re not making the recipes. Like I think you’re the only person that made any of my recipes, which I love you for.

Sarah (06:34)
Yeah.

I mean, I’m sad to not get your recipes, but I’m happier for you.

Pam (06:57)
Well, I can definitely still send you ones that I love.

Sarah (06:59)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That’s good. I I love that you took swift action. And actually, that’s something that I admire in you is that I’ve seen you try a number of different things and you’re like, I launched this. We did it for a while. We shut it down. That’s cool. You know, and that’s, I love that because it shows the initiative to start something and then also to know when to pull the plug. And then you harness the learning and that’s it. I think it’s easy to kind of

think, I’m going to love doing this. It’s going to be really great. then when the rubber meets the road, it’s like, no, actually, this is not sparking joy for me. And as you said, what am I getting out of it?

Pam (07:41)
Right, and there’s a difference between, this is something I had to really learn for myself, there’s a difference between something getting hard and you want to continue doing it so the hard is worth it, and then there’s something is hard and it sucks. Right?

Sarah (07:49)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

But I think

like something about you is you genuinely like helping people with the stuff that you know. You’re like, these are like some of the things I know that I’m like pretty good at and who can I help with it? know, so you’ve done that with various sort of podcasts and ideas for different coaching, like financial coaching. our podcast, Not Bad Advice, the recipes, but it all comes from that sort of spirit of.

Pam (08:03)
I do. Yeah.

You

Sarah (08:23)
generosity of wanting to share and help. And then sometimes things work for a little while and then we’re like, yeah, no, this isn’t quite right anymore.

Pam (08:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I like your perspective on that versus the perspective that I’ve had to come out of, of like feeling like a quitter. And you’re saying like, I admire that you try things and then you stop when they’re not good anymore. So that just like highlights these stories that we have about ourselves and that like you’ve got to investigate those and get other people’s perspectives and talk these things through so that you can make decisions that are best for you in the long run.

Sarah (08:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I love it. I love it.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Pam (09:04)
that’s really what we have to do is decide what makes us feel the best and the most alive and gives us the freedom to do the things that we actually want to do with our very precious short amount of time here.

Sarah (09:16)
Very precious. Okay, so this actually is a really good segue to my topic that I wanted to share with you, because you were talking just now about perspective and perspective, you know, really can change everything like, right. So this is a book, How to Winter, that I want to talk about. So there was another book about quote unquote, wintering before this.

Pam (09:33)
Okay?

Sarah (09:43)
called the I believe it was called the art of wintering. I didn’t read that one, but I did pick this one up. Why? Because I like the cover. It’s very me, the stars the purple. You know, I often will pick books and wine by the design. I’m human. So anyways, it’s a great book. it was quite interesting. So this so it’s called how to win winter. The writer is Kari Lebiowitz. And the subheading here is

Pam (09:51)
you

doesn’t?

Sarah (10:12)
Harness your mindset to thrive on cold, dark or difficult days. And hilariously, my daughter like saw this and it happened to be the day that I went to a movie. I don’t know if I told you this. I went to the movies by myself. Then I went to a book store and I bought a bunch of books, including this. And then I took myself out for dinner and I’m just, I like, yeah, I mean, but it was quite amazing that I could do that on my own. But my daughter heard and then she saw the book and she’s like, mom.

Pam (10:34)
no.

Sarah (10:41)
Are you okay?

Pam (10:42)
Yeah.

Sarah (10:45)
Fine, I’m fine. I enjoyed it. Don’t worry. I know she’s like picturing me all alone how to thrive during difficult days.

Pam (10:48)
that’s so sweet.

Well, again, that’s

stories, right? Like to you, that was a wonderful day of spending time by yourself and doing activities you like. And from her, I was like, no, are you okay?

Sarah (10:57)
So true.

Yeah.

So, this is about, yeah, wintering. The concept of wintering is how do we cope with winter months, both literally during the cold winter and then of course, metaphorically being times that feel cold in our lives. I find it interesting because I’m a Torontonian, right? And so we have a very cold winter right now. It’s freezing. It’s about negative, I don’t know, five today, but it was negative 10.

Pam (11:22)
Hmm.

Sarah (11:30)
Doesn’t even matter at a certain point when you’re in the negatives, it’s just freezing, right? And we have four distinct seasons here. So my whole life, you know, we’ve always had these four seasons and I quite like that. I mean, even though I don’t love cold weather, I mean, I like to be cozy. I’m not really into, you know, winter sports. Like I like to be cozy, but I realized about myself, I do like having the four seasons.

Pam (11:33)
Yeah. Yes.

Sarah (11:59)
So there is a level of acceptance that I have about winter. I’m like, yeah, that’s just part of life. That’s part of how the year goes. At the same time, I thought, okay, I’d be open to exploring different thoughts on winter because I think it has a bad rep and people love to hate on winter.

Pam (12:21)
I am one of those people.

Sarah (12:22)
You’re what? Listen,

all my Californian friends are like that.

Pam (12:26)
Whenever someone asks me why I moved to California from South Dakota, I’m like, I never wanted to live through another winter. Like, I grew up in South Dakota, I went to college in Colorado, and I literally packed my car the day after I graduated college and drove to California.

Sarah (12:40)
Okay, and so do you ever miss winter, like the cold? No?

Pam (12:42)
No, no, never. Uh-uh. Even

like here, so we have our winter and so, you know, it’ll be like 50 for a few months or maybe like 45. It’ll be cool. You know, you have to wear a coat. And after a couple months, I’m like, we need to go somewhere where there is sun and warmth. Like I can’t, I can’t do this.

Sarah (12:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah, I mean, for sure, like the sun is more pleasant, right? Mostly, but actually I shouldn’t say that because this, concept of, know, some of the concepts in the book are challenging that. So I’m gonna share some of the key themes. So I should mention that this writer went to some of the coldest, darkest parts of the world as part of her research to explore, you know, what kind of

Pam (13:26)
Okay.

Sarah (13:30)
Her initial assumption was, or hypothesis was that the folks in these cold, dark places found ways to cope. But actually, the research showed that, well, no, they love it. So why? What is it about that? And what’s the learning? So there’s a lot of science. There’s a lot of anecdotes. There’s a lot of stories. But I pulled out themes that I thought would be interesting to share.

The first is around mindset. And I thought you’d find this interesting. She distinguishes between like a positive mindset, like the power of positive thinking versus an adaptive mindset. So a positive mindset, like kind of like a fake positive mindset could look something like, my gosh, don’t worry, it’ll be over soon or

It could always be worse. It could always be colder. It could always be darker. Or another example could be, just think about how good the spring and summer will feel in contrast to this, you’re kind of like reinforcing the negative thoughts about winter in those kinds of thoughts. So she was saying, don’t do that.

Pam (14:37)
Right.

Sarah (14:44)
Instead, she talks about something called adaptive mindsets. And that’s saying, well, what is the opportunity here? What is the opportunity for growth here, for joy here, at the same time as acknowledging what’s challenging about it? Right? So what is that about? That’s about accepting the fact that life is contradictory and nuanced, which is something that you and I have talked about before.

So here she says, “We are deliberately focused on the most useful faucet of a nuanced reality without denying that other perspectives might hold truth as well.” So maybe it’s an environment where you can have a certain kind of beauty, right? Because people who live in these environments, they often have a lot of rituals and like they’re in nature in certain ways and they have a lot of community events.

And there’s a lot of beauty that they’ll see in the winter landscapes and in the cold months and with candles and certain experiences. So what’s that opportunity there for a certain specific kind of joy and experience? And at the same time, acknowledging that for many people, the darkness might mean extra fatigue, certain kinds of challenges.

physical or emotional. So how can all of those things be true at once? So I thought that was a really interesting discussion of mindset. That it’s not about just like, making everything perfect, but if anything, it’s about holding multiple truths at once.

Pam (16:24)
This is talking about winter, but that’s applicable to anything in life, right? That if you’re always trying to, like, if you’re in a negative situation or something isn’t ideal or whatever, because life is never ideal, if you’re always thinking like, well, like, I’m going to be happy when summer comes, right? I’m going to be happy when things are better. I’m going to be happy later on or, whatever it is. And you’re never able to like, look at the present and be like,

This also has beauty. This also has good things. There’s things that I can appreciate about where I am right now. You’re never present if you can’t do that. You’re always reaching for something else and you never get to be happy now.

Sarah (17:07)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well said. So that was one thing that I thought was really interesting that was like really pronounced in the book. Another thing that she talks about that really resonated with me, because I feel this as well, is about noticing that how a pronounced winter makes us notice the cyclical nature of life. Right. So that’s

What’s the learning there? It’s remembering that difficult periods or cold periods are a normal part of life. So instead of fighting against them, how can we work with them? Because you can’t fight against winter. I mean, the season is going to last as long as it lasts. The temperature, Mother Nature wins, you know? So you adapt. You cope, you adapt, you make the most out of it, but you have to surrender to it.

Pam (18:02)
We were just talking a couple episodes ago about cycles in business and in life and how you can’t always be at your peak. You can’t be productive at high levels all the time. You can’t be going 100 miles an hour all the time. There’s going to be slower periods. There’s going to be down periods. And embracing those cycles is kind of a key to understanding your

Sarah (18:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Pam (18:30)
your body, what you need, what your how your business is, how your relationship is, like everything goes through cycles. And if you’re always expecting it to be 75 and sunny all the time, you’re never going to be you’re never actually going to be able to be at your best because you’re not going to be able to embrace those down times when you can get cozy and, recover and spend, some downtime like, you know, a lot of people

Sarah (18:41)
Yeah.

Pam (18:58)
do kind of hibernate a little bit in the winter, and yeah, it is like everything, everything is cyclical. That’s just the way life works and identifying those cycles and working with them instead of against them is so much more productive.

Sarah (19:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and so it’s such a powerful physical manifestation of the cycle. mean, there is, it’s one of the biggest cycles you can see in front of your eyes is nature, right? The leaves falling off the trees, like snow, nothing’s happening yet underground, all of this magic is happening, just waiting for the spring and there’s nothing you can do but kind of surrender to it. So I think that there is a really beautiful and powerful.

Pam (19:32)
Yeah.

Sarah (19:41)
lesson in that when going through your life or going through your business and taking that as a cue. Taking that as a cue. So there was there’s a quote that I wanted to share about the cycles.

Pam (19:48)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (19:53)
“Adapting to winter is also practice adjusting to whatever is in front of us. There are seasons of the year and seasons of life for putting ourselves out there, for pushing ourselves, for striving and learning and growing. And there are seasons for going inward, for slowing down, for healing, for taking stock. There will be months and years of great joy and bounty and months and years of hardship and sadness.

Learning to accept, even embrace wherever we are, whenever we are, is a practice of a lifetime. Knowing when to slow down and when to speed up is wisdom. The ability to listen to ourselves, to match the natural world, to work with circumstances rather to fight against them are skills that will aid us in every adventure that we undertake. And winter gives us the chance to rehearse that every year.”

Pam (20:43)
When you mentioned that you were wanting to talk about this topic, I had never heard the term wintering before, and I didn’t look into it because I wanted it to be new information coming for you. So I really thought that this was going to be like how to hibernate as a human. Like how to take the winter as downtime and to just.

Sarah (20:44)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah,

that’s certainly part of the book, though. They talk about that because she talks about the fact that during winter months in most cultures, people do sleep more. They need to rest more. They need to go inside and have those rituals and sleep more. you know, the light, the sun sets earlier, right? Like it’s dark. So you kind of your body is

Pam (21:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah (21:31)
Cued to okay. I’m going to go to bed now. I’m gonna go to bed early. So part of it is that And that that’s not a bad thing. That’s what she says. It’s not a bad thing

Pam (21:41)
More sleep is never a bad thing.

Sarah (21:43)
More sleep is never a bad thing.

Tune into our sleep episode to hear more. Yeah.

Pam (21:47)
Right.

the other topic that I was going to bring up, was during this period of time scarcity that I was in, I was also, as we talked about on our New Year’s episode, I’ve also been committing to saying yes to more activities and like being more social. So I had this like,

confluence of events where all of a sudden I had time scarcity, but I had also made plans with someone, a new friend. So it’s someone that I have known in a professional capacity. And I reached out to her earlier in the month and was like, hey, you know, I, I, you know, think we would get along well as friends if you want to get together and try it out. So we made plans for a couple of weeks later. And that was right during when I was feeling all this time scarcity.

And so that, in addition to just the weirdness of being an adult human, like all of a sudden, a couple days before getting together with her, I was like, should I cancel? Like, are we gonna have anything to talk about? Is it gonna be weird? Like, why am I doing this? Why am I putting myself through trying to have friends? It was all brain, you know, being the way brains are. And…

Sarah (23:01)
my gosh, yeah.

Pam (23:03)
Of course I didn’t cancel and we had a lovely time. We took a walk for like four miles and talked the entire time and we’re going to get together again and it was great. But it really brought up how hard it is to make friends as an adult and to make time for friendships. So the big things that I took away from it were when I reached out to her to ask if she wanted to get together, she had been actually feeling the same thing. So

Sarah (23:20)
Yes.

Hmm.

Pam (23:32)
Like if you’ve got that, kind like if you meet someone at an event or something, or like you come across someone that you think that you want to be friends with, just reach out and ask. Like I know it feels so awkward, so weird to be like, hey, you want to go on a friend date with me? But like you’re not going to get together if somebody doesn’t take the first step. just, yeah, make the move. Like what’s the worst that’s going to happen? And then second, when you start,

Sarah (23:45)
Yeah.

Make the first friend move.

Pam (24:01)
having second thoughts and thinking about canceling because everyone right that people talk about this all the time now that they make plans with people and everyone backs out at the last minute like don’t be that person like make plans commit to it your brain is going to try and talk you out of it it’s just resistance and you’re going to have fun so do it make friends

Sarah (24:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yay!

Make friends. Actually, I’d love to do a couple episodes on relationships and relationships as adults. I think it’s a good topic. I’ve thought about it a lot. sort of losing touch with old friends, releasing that, sometimes some regret around that. Also knowing that’s how you create space and that’s just the cycle of life, right?

Pam (24:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah (24:47)
And then and then so many new friendships and how to do that and how to make time and how do you know if this is a person that you want to be friends with and kind of aligning interests and there’s there’s a lot to talk about there Yeah, and I know what you mean I actually that’s interesting you said that cuz last Week, I made the first move for a yeah one friend who I met and I mean I met

Pam (25:01)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Sarah (25:14)
them one time in New York and I really felt sort of this connection to them. I called. I called them, right? And just to say hello and another old friend. Yeah, I just called. You know, it’s not so revolutionary yet. It is though, isn’t it? Thank you. Yeah.

Pam (25:19)
you

It is though. Yeah, I mean to pick

up the phone and call someone like it feels so crazy now.

Sarah (25:41)
I know, even my friend, and we do speak, but usually we plan out when we’re gonna speak, because he lives in Europe. So it’s like, okay, when and will we meet on Zoom? And this time I called and it’s, hi, is everything okay? Yeah, I’m fine. I’m saying hello. great. Okay, good. Yeah.

Pam (25:46)
Yes, always.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, that’s the first thing you think when someone calls you out of the blue is something’s wrong or it was an accident.

Sarah (26:02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you had a good time though with your new friend.

Pam (26:07)
Yeah, we did. We had

a lovely time

Sarah (26:10)
2025

is gonna be filled with people and projects and… You’re like, hold on, hold on, step step.

Pam (26:16)
We’ll see, I’m still a homebody.

I mean, back to the beginning of the show, I need a lot of freedom and a lot of downtime and a lot of just like time to myself reading and letting my mind go free and cooking and puttering around the house.

Sarah (26:22)
Wow.

Yeah,

I need that too. I mean, that’s what I’m really trying to lean into this year. And so far successfully, I might add. Yeah, so far I’ve been doing some good acts of nourishing myself and with that spaciousness.

Pam (26:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

Good. Nice.

good

So a lot of what we’ve been talking about requires emotional intelligence. So you have been taking a course?

Sarah (27:01)
What a nice segue.

Yes, I started a new course on emotional intelligence where I’m one of the learners, not to be confused with a course that I’m designing on emotional intelligence. So I already have quite a lot of understanding of different facets of emotional intelligence and how I might wanna structure a program, which I’ve been hired to do. But there were a few gaps and I thought,

Why did I take this course? Because it’s Daniel Goldman’s emotional intelligence course. And for anyone who might doesn’t know, he’s considered sort of the grandfather of emotional intelligence. And really wrote the first book on emotional intelligence and many, many books since and is considered just a very respected expert in it. So I thought, why not learn from the master? So I signed up for the course.

Pam (27:47)
Okay.

Sarah (28:05)
Now I’m only in week two of week 12, so a lot more learning to go. But in the spirit of simplicity and spaciousness, I have put a limit on myself. I’m not allowed to sign up for any other courses during this time or any other coaching. I’m working with my coach. doing this course. That’s it. Nothing else. So that feels quite joyful to be like, no, you’re not allowed.

Pam (28:22)
Good call.

Sarah (28:33)
So that’s been great. I’m in week two right now and I’m really excited to dive into the framework. I have to say it’s designed in a really comprehensive, organized way. The facilitators have been great so far and we’re beginning with a topic that’s near and dear to my heart, which is self-awareness, which is the first of the four principles of emotional intelligence is the self-awareness piece.

Pam (28:59)
Okay.

Sarah (29:02)
And we’ve talked about mindfulness, we’re talking about focus, understanding our values, what we stand for. So these are of course topics that are near and dear to my heart, but I’m always curious to see what else I can get from another person’s perspective or approach to teaching it. So the focus on mindfulness has been really interesting that this really underscores the whole program, because we’re gonna be going into relationship management.

how to deal with conflict, how to manage your own emotions when you’re triggered, but the mindfulness piece and the focus are gonna apparently be integrated. mean, it’s not really surprising when you think about it, but it’s striking that that’s really the piece that seems like it’s gonna be integrated throughout the whole process.

Pam (29:55)
Great. So it’s not self-directed. You’re actually attending courses with Facilitator.

Sarah (30:02)
Correct, yeah. So there’s a lot of the way it’s designed, which I appreciate is that every day there’s a little micro lesson that you do, sort of 15, 20 minutes. And then every two weeks you meet as a group and you talk about the bigger themes. So a lot of it is self-directed, but you are following the schedule, which is important for me because as I’ve shared before, I do not do well in a self-directed course. I need something to show up for. So I think it’s a good balance.

Pam (30:31)
Great. And is it something for anyone or is it specifically for coaches and higher level like people like you?

Sarah (30:38)
It is for anyone. There are a number of coaches and facilitators and sort of mental health professionals and academic types that seem to take it. And there’s a lot of people from different backgrounds. The focus is very much on emotional intelligence in work contexts and in leadership contexts. So there’s a lot of individuals and I was really happy.

to see a diversity in terms of where people were calling in from. There were people from the US, there was somebody calling in from India. Just in my small group, there was somebody calling in from Papua New Guinea. So there was, yeah, and I love it when people, know, my gosh, it’s four o’clock in the morning, or whatever, and people are making the effort to call in. So I’m excited to hear about the different perspectives on the topics from different folks in the group.

Pam (31:20)
Wow.

Okay, great. Well, we can link to that class in the show notes.

Sarah (31:35)
Absolutely, yeah, and more to come as I continue to learn. I’d love to share with you some of the key themes that we’re talking about.