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This transcript was generated by AI so please ignore any weird errors. If there is anything really terrible, let us know.

{Intro Music}

[00:00:08] Sarah: This concept of asking for help as a concept really came to me during a leadership training I took part in over the last few years.

And one of our big lessons was on this idea of asking for help. And we spent over a whole day talking about the concept. What’s our relationship with asking for help? And it really became a theme. Over the following weeks and months of the program. And then definitely a theme in my own life and a theme that I bring up with my clients all the time. And then I mentioned it to you and I think you wrote back in about five seconds being like, sounds great! Exclamation mark. So here we are, diving into this topic. And I think it’s so helpful, for everybody, regardless of what your relationship is with asking for help, what I’ve realized is there’s always more, more layers to peel back, and there’s always deeper truths around it.

[00:01:06] Pam: Yeah, and it’s such a loaded topic, I think, for a lot of people. And I want to be clear that when we say asking for help, we’re talking about any help, right? It could be therapy, going to the doctor, getting a coach. It could also just be help around the house, help with childcare, you know, doing the dishes, help with work.

It’s something that can happen in your everyday life, it can be little things, and it can also be getting help with bigger issues in your life. Getting help in general is a topic that we need to talk about more and that we need to just kind of dig into because it can be really difficult to ask for help for anything big or small for a lot of reasons.

[00:01:53] Sarah: It’s so true, and so I love that you brought up how applicable it is to all the different areas. Because it, I see asking for help as a muscle, right? Identifying roadblocks, or what’s the word? Like bottlenecks in our own lives, and being like, oh wow, this is… This is an area where I could use some help.

So first noticing it, giving yourself permission to ask for it, and then executing on the ask. So I think becoming more aware and starting to practice it, there’s just so many parts of our lives and work where our lives will become better and easier.

[00:02:24] Pam: And in our prep for this episode, you said that it hadn’t occurred to you that asking for help was an adult or professional topic before you went to this leadership training program. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

[00:02:37] Sarah: for Or sure. Um, I, I was shocked that it was a whole theme for the day, right? Because you would think asking for help is a method by which you might, execute on something, right? So you would think it might be part of how you do something, but it’s not, um, it’s not a skill that you’re using all of the time for everything.

[00:03:04] Pam: So you hadn’t realized that it was a huge overarching topic on its own that affected, everything that you do.

[00:03:11] Sarah: 100%. Like asking for help in and of itself is a competency. It’s not something that you need to use to develop one particular competency or another. It is in and of itself a competency. And any type of leadership, leadership over your own life, leadership in your own work, requires consistently asking for help to empower yourself and to empower others.

So I hadn’t really ever thought of it in those terms. It was revelatory for me.

[00:03:43] Pam: I have an interesting relationship with asking for help because on one hand, I’m a control person. I like to do everything myself. Um, I definitely am the type of person where if something needs to get done, I will go and like research it and figure out how to do it myself. But as I’ve gotten older and as I’ve kind of prioritized my time and made that the most valuable thing to me, I’ve started to realize that like, I don’t have to, or want to spend my time figuring out how to do things that I don’t actually have to figure out how to do on my own. So I would say over the last five years, maybe a little bit longer, I’ve gotten much better at stopping and recognizing like, Oh, someone else knows how to do this better than I do.

Or someone can shortcut me to the point of getting this done. If I just ask them for help. So, I think my relationship with asking for help has changed as I have changed how I think about my time and realize that it’s not always valuable for me to spend all of this time trying to figure out how to do something on my own or, or trying to Um, you know, learn everything that I don’t actually need to become an expert in, you know, so, um, and that took like recognizing that sometimes it’s okay to pay for someone else’s expertise if it’s going to get you a solution faster. Or sometimes it is more valuable to reach out to someone who has experience that you don’t have or can’t get that experience on your own in a reasonable amount of time.

[00:05:18] Sarah: Yeah, so already we’re hearing, asking for help can save you time, can save you money. And can save you considerable headaches.

Trying to learn something that’s not necessarily in your… maybe you’re capable of learning it, but it’s not really in your zone of excellence or genius, and it’s not even necessarily that interesting to you.

[00:05:37] Pam: Sure. And sometimes help can be educational. So there’s a lot of times where there’s something, you know, a problem that I need to solve or something that I want to do. And if I were starting from scratch, it would take me a lot longer to fix that problem, or maybe I wouldn’t even know where to go, which we’re going to get into when we get into the reasons why it’s hard to ask for help.

But just the process of getting help and seeing someone do something or having them walk you through it is educational. So you grow, you improve, and you walk away with new skills in how to deal with this issue or situation in the future.

[00:06:12] Sarah: Yeah, I love what you’re saying that sometimes the help can just be one or two steps. I was picturing a step ladder when you were saying that. It’s just, okay, here’s the ladder, let me just help you, walk up the first and second step. Now you know what you’re doing, you can finish the rest on your own.

So you’re not necessarily signing up for a lifetime of support.

Sometimes it’s just the, the leg up that you need to get started and then you’re on your way.

[00:06:35] Pam: So do we want to start talking about why it’s so hard to ask for help? Because it really, really is. I think there’s so many roadblocks where you might recognize that you could benefit from help somewhere and then you immediately start going into all these reasons why you can’t or shouldn’t.

[00:06:56] Sarah: Yeah, and there are so many reasons. I found it interesting brainstorming on my own and then doing some research to find out what are the common reasons that make it so hard for most of us to ask for help because there are many.

I’ll start with one of my top reasons. As a pleaser slash recovering pleaser one of my big roadblocks is often not wanting to, in the past anyways, has been not wanting to inconvenience somebody and not wanting to impose my needs on someone. I you know, impose. I should, you know, using bunny ears if anyone is not watching the video, but listening. I don’t want to put extra work on someone else or extra stress on someone.

Even using their time for the phone call. Even saying, Hey, do you have 20 minutes so we can chat? I, you know, I have a problem I would love your advice on, or I just want to talk something through with you. In the past I would think, well, I don’t want to put another thing on somebody’s plate.

[00:07:53] Pam: I think that that one is extremely common and I have the same issue, but something that I’ve used to kind of change how I think about that is that I like helping other people and people like helping. The world is reciprocal. That’s how it works. Asking someone for help for especially something that they’re good at, they probably really enjoy offering that assistance or educating you or sharing their experience. So, I’ve definitely shifted my perspective on asking for help. And I actually think of it more as a, a way to connect with people.

[00:08:30] Sarah: I couldn’t agree more. It’s so true. It is so joyful to be able to help somebody with something that you know how to do because you’ve worked hard to learn or you’ve gone through something where you now have wisdom on the other side. It really is a gift. So that perspective shift is huge and I try to step into that myself when I’m asking others for help.

It really, it sounds cheesy, but it’s the truth. It is a gift to be able to help somebody. So you are giving somebody an opportunity to have that sense of fulfillment by helping you.

I’m glad that already we got to sort of the mindset shift for that. I think because that’s a really common reason for one. Oh, I don’t want to put someone out. I don’t want to put more on their plate.

What’s another roadblock that you’ve noticed within yourself?

[00:09:20] Pam: One that I think is big is feeling like you don’t deserve help or that you don’t actually need it. That you should be able to do whatever it is on your own. And there’s a lot of layers in that, depending on what it is that you need help with. I definitely have felt that, whatever is going on, I should be strong enough or smart enough or capable enough to, to fix it, you know, air quotes, fix it on my own.

[00:09:52] Sarah: Has your relationship with that one or how has that shifted over the last few years?

[00:09:57] Pam: I think it’s shifted in the same way, With the feelings about my time, that when I focus on my time being valuable, that by, translation then also means I’m valuable, right? So if my time is valuable and I’m valuable, then I’m, I deserve to have the help. I deserve to, bring someone else in who has more knowledge than I do.

But also I deserve to use my resources, my money. I have worked hard for that money, so I can use it to give myself help. I think that can be a big roadblock for people sometimes as they’re like, well, if I have to pay for help, then that’s like another layer of like, I’m using my money to do something for my mental health or, you know, whatever it is that you’re, you’re dealing with.

And I think you have to get over that extra hurdle of, of like, deserving to spend money to help yourself.

So valuing my time and having that mindset that I deserve to use my resources to improve my life has been a big shift.

[00:11:05] Sarah: I, oh my gosh, I love it. And what I want to add to that is as we know, recognizing our own worthiness to ask for and then receive help is never a one and done thing. And what I want to offer is if anyone is struggling with that, because it’s so common is to say, I’m practicing remembering that I’m worthy to receive help, right?

I’m practicing, believing that it’s okay to receive help. I’m practicing receiving help.

Because it’s, It’s huge, like, how we can stand in our own way, uh, with that worthiness piece. And then another thing I picked up on when you were talking about it is perfectionism, right? I’m not worthy because I should know how.

[00:11:51] Pam: Mm hmm.

[00:11:52] Sarah: Like, there’s something inherently wrong with me that I don’t know how to do this, that my neighbor knows how to do, my friend, my colleague, my sister, my cousin, everybody seems to find this easy. Or seems to be able to have it figured out. And, and for whatever reason, it’s hard for me. I can think of examples from my own life.

Where, I’ve struggled to do things that I think other people can do with ease. And one we’ve talked about on the show before and it’s gardening, right? I found it, overwhelming to think of how do I plan this out? Where do I start? What do I buy? And yes, I could have gone on the internet and read blogs and figured it out on paper.

Yet there were emotional layers to it that were making it feel more complicated. And I resisted asking for help because I would think this is just something that people do. And they always talk about how much they love it. Why is it hard for me? And judging that, and that’s a perfectionism thing.

Versus embracing as a human, some things are hard, some things are easy, and a million things are in between. And what can I do? And then lo and behold, I had a wonderful friend who loved helping. It was a joy for her because it’s something that she’s figured out and she loves doing. So it was a joy for her and then a joy for me to be able to receive that.

And as you said, in a way, just give me those first few steps and now I can do more of it on my own. But that took me realizing, I don’t have to be good at everything on my own, or I don’t have to find everything easy and intuitive, just because lots of people do.

[00:13:28] Pam: And we went into that a little bit in the Perfectionism episode, but it’s so important because you do need to recognize, like, I am great at X, Y, and Z, and I don’t have any experience with what I’m dealing with right now, and that’s okay. I shouldn’t have experience with it, I’ve never done it before, so I’m gonna need a little bit of help.

Or, there may be things that you do have experience, you’ve tried doing before, that you just are not good at. I have a thing that, , I can’t think in 3D, so, um, like, layouts of homes are really difficult for me, and, like, I’m great at math, but hanging a Painting on the wall is a nightmare for me.

I can’t, for some reason, I can’t measure the wall and figure out where the center is and what that means for the painting. Like, it’s just one of those things that I mess up every single time, so then I’ve got holes in my walls. So I have learned to just ask CK to do it. Like, he will do it perfectly, and it will be done, and I won’t screw it up.

Because I’ve tried a million times, and I’m terrible at it, and that’s okay.

[00:14:35] Sarah: So did he hang up those paintings behind you in your study there?

[00:14:39] Pam: I did those ones, but I did it with the 3M strips, so I could move them and not put any holes in the walls. So that’s the other, the other hack there is I got technological help. Yeah.

[00:14:51] Sarah: but anyways, you knew you needed help.

[00:14:53] Pam: Exactly. Yes.

So, another thing along the same lines of that we’ve been talking about is a fear of being judged or being vulnerable and having that hold you back from asking for help. And I think everyone can identify with that. We all feel vulnerable. It’s really, really hard to raise your hand and say, I can’t do this because, like you just were saying, it seems like everyone else can do the thing that you can’t do or that you don’t know about when you’re dealing with it.

How do we deal with that? How do we deal with this fear of judgment or not wanting to be vulnerable when we ask for help?

[00:15:35] Sarah: As always, the awareness piece, being aware and being able to catch it is the first step. And interestingly, earlier I was meeting with a client and this topic organically came up about asking for help. Uh, and he was talking about it in the workplace and he was saying a pattern he noticed with himself is that he would wait until the situation was so dire before giving himself permission. And the thinking was, well, I’m just going to get it to a good enough spot before I ask for help, right? So I’m just gonna fix it before I ask for help. And in the process, the situation is deteriorating and the control over the situation is deteriorating.

But it’s this idea that I, better get my shit together before I admit that I actually need help so people don’t see how bad it actually is. Bad being completely subjective. Because often our own judgements of our needs are so much more dire than they actually are. So I thought that was really interesting and it’s along the lines of what you’re saying.

Just to be vulnerable enough to say, this is what I’m dealing with right now. It feels like a mask. Right? Or it feels like X, whatever it is, and I don’t have to fix it first or clean it up first and make it more presentable. I’m going to find a person or a resource or a tool where I’m safe to bring my whole self and this whole situation as it is.

[00:17:10] Pam: I had never thought about that before, but you definitely do try and like clean up your mess a little bit and make it presentable before you ask for help. I think addicts do that a lot. You know, if they’re pushed to go to rehab, then they think like, well, I’m just gonna, you know, quit doing the hard drugs first and then I’ll go get help because I want to go into it being a little bit cleaner and I don’t want to go in being the way that I am right now. And it’s the same mindset. You need help with the big mess. That’s the reason that you’re getting help.

And the longer you try and delay it or clean it up on your own, just the more duct tape you’re putting on there and it’s, it’s falling apart underneath everything. So I think that’s, that’s really interesting. It’s a really good observation.

[00:18:02] Sarah: yes. Yeah. And it’s a fantasy too. It’s saying, well, I’m going to, again, it’s a perfection, like a perfectionism and a fantasy. I’m going to be able to figure it out on my own. Then it’s just going to be this tiny little thing, you know, and I may or may not need help with it, but I’m going to be able to handle this myself first.

So how do we deal with that? The awareness piece and, and self compassion. And specifically the part of self compassion, which is reminding yourself that you’re a normal human and it’s part of the human experience to have messes. And to need help and there’s no shame. And again, that’s a practice because intuitively most of us don’t believe that because we’ve been conditioned to think we do need to be organized in all areas and know what we’re doing and have all these competencies and not feel confused and not feel overwhelmed.

And that’s not true. So the self compassion part of recognizing, wow, this is a moment of suffering or this is a moment of confusion. This is a moment of overwhelm for me. I need help. And then the next part is saying, this is a normal human experience. All humans feel this way sometimes about different things. How can I make this easier for myself? How can I extend kindness to myself? And in the topic of, you know, this episode, it’s asking for help. How can I make this easier for myself? How can someone or something help me? How could I receive help to make this easier?

[00:19:40] Pam: So let’s talk a little bit about the different stereotypes then, or social norms. Do you experience any difference in gender with your clients with who asks for help, why they ask for help, why they don’t?

[00:19:55] Sarah: It’s interesting that you say that. I was chatting with my husband about this over lunch because I went into the internet in researching, you know, gender differences and asking for help. And I found that all genders, all individuals, all genders have their own challenges. I think for me personally, as a coach and as a communication skills instructor, I have…

A unique experience because I have many male clients. They’re all willing to ask for help because they’ve hired me. So the people who take my classes and then who hire me, they’re, they’re of the part of the population that is comfortable asking for help.

Some of them, some, I’m speaking of the men, some of them are, are very used to this and they’re very used to talking about their emotions and their experiences. Others, less so at the beginning, but it doesn’t take too long once the trust has been established.

Um, so in my own life, in my, in my own practice. And in my own family, I’m used to men being very open about asking for help. That said, the research that I did indicated that in fact, as a general rule, many men have a harder time asking for help than women do because of a stereotype. Which can be conscious or subconscious of men feeling that they have to have all their stuff together.

They have to be really capable. They have to be able to figure things out on their own. They don’t want to, you know, ask for directions, let alone some help for something much bigger than, how do I not get lost?

[00:21:27] Pam: Yeah. So, when we talk about CK’s journey with anxiety, we have kind of an interesting thing that almost always happens, which is when we talk to women about it, they already know about what anxiety feels like and, um, are really comfortable talking about their own anxieties. And it seems like they are really tuned into what anxiety feels like and how it presents.

And when we talk to men about it, like, I have this specific memory where we were out to a big dinner with a lot of his friends from college, and we were talking about him having anxiety and doing this neurofeedback training for his brain, and the guys were like, how do you know if you have anxiety? Like, they just had no concept. No one had ever, like, talked to them about what anxiety feels like and what may be going on. And after we explained to them what CK’s symptoms were and what some other people might feel, they were all like, oh my gosh. I think I have anxiety. Like, I have felt that. I felt that, you know, and so it’s really interesting that, we kind of societally have differences in our knowledge about mental health or about, you know, really anything that could be an issue that’s holding you back, that like people just have different levels of knowledge and different levels of experience in dealing with things. And so if they don’t have any context for that what they’re feeling could be something that they could get help with, then they don’t even know to ask for help.

And we really, really just see that so often when we talk to men about anxiety, that they just have no concept that this is something that could be helped.

[00:23:24] Sarah: So interesting. And then it’s true, right? In our society, people who are socialized as girls and women are taught to talk about their emotions and be expressive and hold space for that. And people who are socialized as boys and men, much less so.

[00:23:41] Pam: Yeah.

[00:23:42] Sarah: So it’s not surprising that for something as vulnerable and, and, and personal as anxiety, there would be that those blockers.

That’s so interesting that you’ve noticed that in your own ecosystem of conversations.

[00:23:56] Pam: Yeah. And I think on the flip side for people socialized as women, they have other situations where they feel the expectation to be perfect or that they don’t have knowledge that what they’re going through is totally normal. I have new moms in my life. So I’m thinking about that. You know, there’s a lot of pressure for women to be perfect moms and to just know how to do it. And obviously that’s not realistic. So that’s another situation where, a potential gender difference may present an issue that you can ask for help, but you may, um, you know, either not have the knowledge or the experience to know that there is help available.

[00:24:42] Sarah: For sure, and I think certain tendencies that tend to be gendered for example, pleasing others, not wanting to impose, being acutely aware of somebody else’s emotional state, overly empathetic, et cetera. Which, uh, often women have those tendencies, can stand in the way of asking for help. Also socialized to think that you have to really have it all together, not have a lot of emotional needs because there’s a lot of stereotypes around women being, you know, hysterical or emotional and needing all this help.

So subconsciously we can internalize that and think, well, I want to be presented as cool, calm, and collected, especially in a, in the workforce. And that’s a place where women… studies have indicated that women are, are less likely to ask for help because they believe, oftentimes, rightfully so, they’re going to be penalized for that in a way that men wouldn’t be, because we all know that in most workplaces, women need to work extra hard and be extra perfect at their work to be compensated, uh, at the rate that men would be, and even then they are not.

So, there are double standards in the workforce where I think women might need support with the actual work that they’re doing, support to manage their work life balance, particularly if they’re the mother, uh, and they, they’re not safe to ask for that help.

So, either they believe that they’re not safe based on, uh, how they’ve, what they’ve been socialized to, to see and believe, or they actually are not safe and in the sense that their job will be less secure if they actually ask for what they need. And then it becomes ingrained.

[00:26:30] Pam: Okay. So we’ve talked about quite a few reasons why people don’t get help when they maybe don’t realize that they need it, or they have kind of a block to actually asking for help. But what happens when you kind of recognize like, oh, I’ve got something that I need some help with, but you don’t know who to ask.

[00:26:54] Sarah: So the first piece would be the self care piece, the self compassion piece. And the reason why I started this with the self care piece is we have to be grounded and calm and, and in touch with our sage self in order to find a good answer. So if we’re in a place where we really need help, What can we do to self regulate enough to make a firm, clear decision in our best interest, right?

So if we’re feeling really overwhelmed, if I don’t know where to go, I have no one, first thing, ground ourselves. Get to a place of more clarity of mind and, and think, is that really true or is there somebody that I trust? And even if this person isn’t somebody who has the answer, is there a person you trust enough to say, Hey, I’m really stuck with this and I don’t know where to go.

Can you help me by being a sounding board with me and help me brainstorm where I might be able to find some support that meets my needs, fits my budget and, and integrates into my lifestyle?

[00:28:02] Pam: And don’t get hung up on trying to find the perfect help right away. I think that’s something that definitely holds people back, especially when I’ve talked to people about going to therapy. They will say that they don’t think they’ll find the right therapist or they’ve done like the online therapy and it felt really impersonal and they didn’t connect with the therapist.

So I think starting somewhere is a really good step. You may not find the right answer or the right help on the first try, but it gets you moving in the right direction.

[00:28:37] Sarah: It’s momentum.

[00:28:38] Pam: Momentum. Yeah, exactly. And something that stops people in I think getting that momentum is if they have tried to get help before and it didn’t help.

[00:28:48] Sarah: Yeah we love to hold on to those stories,

[00:28:50] Pam: Yes.

Yeah. I tried it. It didn’t work.

Yeah. I think that that is really common or people, you know, you have to try things multiple times before you find what is going to work for you.

Just like, you know, if you’re searching for something on the internet and you go to Google and you type something in and you don’t get the answer you want, you don’t close the browser and go, well, the answer’s not out there. You refine your search. You try again. Um, and the same thing happens with looking for help.

Just because something that you tried before didn’t work, that doesn’t mean that something else won’t work, or that doing that same thing again with a different coach, or different therapist, or different sounding board, whatever it is, that you, you can still have a different outcome trying it again. Yeah.

[00:29:40] Sarah: Oh Pam, what I love about what you’re saying is it acknowledges that it’s hard to ask for help because it means facing something that’s hard that we might want to avoid or use our perfectionism to think we can fix ourselves, etc. So the thing is hard in and of itself, and then we make an attempt, and the attempt doesn’t work, and then our cognitive bias will be like, see?

See, there is no solution, you’re screwed, or you do need to figure it out on your own, or the problem is bigger than anyone else has ever faced and overcome before. See? You idiot, you thought you could actually get help for this, right? That’s what our brain will do. That’s what our cognitive bias will do.

So what I love about what you’re saying is keep going and it’s really about staying committed to yourself. And I love the analogy of the browser. So you didn’t find anything, you go back online, you look again. Don’t take this as any kind of confirmation or sign from the divine that you’re not meant to receive help.

It just means your first try didn’t work. You know, the first therapist didn’t work. The first accountant didn’t work. The first group you joined didn’t have the right kind of people that you were looking for. The first program wasn’t a fit. Great. Now you know that. Try again.

[00:30:54] Pam: Yeah.

[00:30:55] Sarah: Stay committed to yourself in that process and don’t take any of those negative experiences to mean anything more than it wasn’t the right fit.

[00:31:06] Pam: Yeah, with that confirmation bias, it’s really hard because once you have confirmed your opinion that help won’t help, then in order to actually go and get help again, you have to first change your mind about help. And we did a whole episode about changing your mind and how difficult it is. So you have to get over that hurdle.

I gotta change my mind that help isn’t gonna help. And then you can finally go get help again. So it becomes a much more difficult process if you buy into that cognitive bias, that confirmation bias of like, yep, help didn’t work. So you make it harder for yourself rather than just being aware that like, I tried that. It didn’t work. Something else can help.

There’s a couple more things that stop people… One of them just being thinking that they can fix everything themselves, beyond the, the perfectionism and the high achieving things. I think we feel like we know ourselves best, so we are the only ones that can fix it. Like, why would someone else who isn’t in my head have any knowledge that would help me?

And what I want to offer there is that someone else’s perspective can be extremely valuable, even if they don’t know exactly what’s going on in your head, or if you maybe can’t even clearly communicate what you’re feeling. Just having the conversation and just having the other person’s perspective and having them be a reflection and a sounding board for you to have a conversation can be extremely valuable. And they can offer tools that you don’t have experience with or maybe even access to, to help you work on the issue.

[00:33:06] Sarah: I really like that, and I see a link between your previous point and this one around not needing it, not needing the help to be quote unquote perfect, or not needing the helper to be your ideal, you know, the ideal solution, but instead, It’s an active experience. I’m just thinking of this right now.

It’s not like somebody gives you help and it’s like they’ve given you dinner on your plate and now everything… right? Help is an offer, but it’s up to you to take it and do something with it. It’s an offer.

So when you’re asking for help, you’re not just lying on the floor. Okay, I’m done. You know, you have to do everything for me. It’s They give you an offer and then you have to take it and say, what can I take out of this actively that’s going to support the situation, right? So I think of this sometimes with courses or programs or or coaches that people use.

Not everything in it has to change your life. There might be 90% of the content that doesn’t resonate. And that’s fine. You find the 10% or the 1% that’s going to change your life. And you apply that. You harness that really hold onto it and have that be like a nugget that’s transformative.

So the same thing with help. It doesn’t have to solve everything. Ideally it will and sometimes help can be completely transformational… as a gift. And sometimes it’s little bits, as you’re saying, but you can take it. You can apply it. You can, Oh my gosh, I’ve never seen this problem in this light before.

Holy cow. Little by little make your situation better.

[00:34:49] Pam: Yeah. I love that because it’s something that I think about a lot with books that I read or other podcasts that I listen to or when I talk to people about this show. Because a lot of the things that we talk about are things that most people already know, like they have some concept of perfectionism or cognitive biases or all of these things, like we hear about these things all the time, but you need reinforcement, you need to hear the topics again and again, and they may not apply right now.

But at some point they will, and you will hear what you need to hear right now, and you can let the rest go. So I tell people a lot of times that, that this show is great for like, just like put it on in the background and listen, kind of like, you know, while you’re cleaning or cooking or, you know, maybe even doing a little bit of work or something like that, because the nuggets that you need to hear will stand out .

Every book that you read or every podcast that you listen to doesn’t have to be life changing, but there will be information that kind of gets into your subconscious and helps you.

[00:36:00] Sarah: Yes. And when, that’s a beautiful thing about having the intention of. Seeking help, being open to receiving help, knowing, excuse me, this is the area, this is a problem. This is what I want help with. And then asking for it, listening to, I’m going to listen to this one podcast and see if I, what insight I can get.

I’m going to go for this walk with a friend and see what, right. Then you’re, you’re actively listening to pull in what, what is going to be resonant and true for you.

I thought of something else, that I think is a really important skill to develop when it comes to asking for help and that’s to develop, your communication skills.

[00:36:42] Pam: Huge.

[00:36:43] Sarah: right?

That’s a, that’s a real tangible. I think developing a network of people you trust and developing your communication skills are two long game strategies for making your life a little bit and a lot easier.

I wanted to also mention this idea of actively practicing asking for help, as a good tool to become more at ease with the process of asking for help. Setting an intention to ask for help, um, being really clear with your asks. They can be small things, asking a family member, a partner to help with certain things.

Practice using the phrase at the beginning, I wanted to get your help with this. Could you please help me with this? So you’re getting used to it. Again, you can track it. If this is one of your goals to ask and receive more help, actually track it. Start a spreadsheet, start, uh, you know, have a little tracker, a paper tracker, where times you’ve asked for help, times you’ve received help, of course, offering to help is always reciprocal. We can have a whole other session on, on helping.

I think there’s these in the moment strategies, and then longer term strategies to develop your own competence in asking for help, to receive numerous benefits, are really building out a strong support network, practicing clear communications, and then practicing the act, and noticing.

Wow, I asked for help, and my life just got so much better because I got that help. Holy cow, that saved me eight hours of time, or holy cow, that gave me a new idea. I never would have thought of that idea before.

[00:38:24] Pam: And you have to really focus on those times when the help helps because of our negativity bias as humans. We’re going to put more emphasis on the five times that you asked for help and it didn’t work than the hundred times that you asked for help and it did help. That just is naturally how our brains work.

We. We put more emphasis on bad outcomes. So you have to really, really focus on thinking about the positive outcomes when you did ask for help to reinforce your pattern of asking for help and, and being okay with whatever the outcome is.

[00:39:04] Sarah: yes, great. So not only do we practice asking for help, but we track the, track the results, track the impact. And then a final, um, activity I wanted to mention is finding a coach or a therapist because these are individuals who you’re hiring, you’re literally paying them to help you or any type of consultant that you might need in your life, any area. So depending on what your resources are, find an area of your life where you feel stuck.

Like maybe it’s your career development, maybe it’s a specific skill, or maybe it’s something more like decluttering your house, getting your house organized, figuring out how to cook for yourself, supporting with sleep hygiene, launching a small business. Anything in your life where there’s that thing, wow, I really wanna do this thing, and, and I, and I, and I can’t…

I can’t do it on my own. I keep trying and it’s just not happening. If you have resources to direct, direct them to somebody. I’m practicing, I’m hiring you to help me with this. How can you help me? And then you really get to exercise your muscle in that way.

[00:40:13] Pam: And I want to add to that, based on my experience in working with you, be open to the coach or therapist’s redirection of the outcome that you think that you need, or the tools that you think that you need. Because as I’ve said many, many times, I came to work with you and I said, I need systems, I need structure in my work to alleviate my anxiety.

And you were like, Oh, we’ll see. And it wasn’t what I needed, right? I had to fix how I was thinking about my work. So if you ask for help, be open to the help that you get. Because if you already knew how to solve the problem, you wouldn’t need the help.

[00:40:54] Sarah: you would have done

[00:40:54] Pam: you would have done it. Yeah,

[00:40:56] Sarah: I always do it this way. I always solve my problems with systems.

[00:40:59] Pam: Right?

[00:41:01] Sarah: And if you need help with systems, you can contact Pam. She’s a systems queen.

[00:41:06] Pam: I do love a good system.